Stiffer Penalties for Race Ending Cautions

[KickinAsphalt]

I think the rule as it stands pertaining to late race ending incidents is not stiff enough. 6 of 8 races thus far have ended under caution. Each of the 3 races I have attended I have seen some pretty wreckless driving towards the end of the race. I don't recall this ever being as big a problem as it is now. I understand MSR is trying to stop these driving habits and that should be commended. However, the penalty of being on a one and park the next race and not being able to qualify is not stiff enough as the aggressive driving has obviously continued after this rule was put into affect. I feel the penalty should have the responsible driver parked for the following race if they cause a race ending caution. I feel this will make some drivers think twice. I understand why you haven't gone this route as of yet as you obviously do not like to park drivers. Coming from a drivers side of it it is frustrating racing for 2 hours just to be wrecked at the end. I'm probably not the only one who feels this way this season.

To add I think you guys do an awesome job trying to make these races happen as smooth as possible. In no way, shape or form am I putting you guys down here. All I am doing is trying to give some constructive feedback. I just feel something should be done, as it's kind of taking the fun away from it. As Tim said in the race tonight. It's just for fun. Maybe some guys need to give and take and those that don't give and take at the end should be forced to watch from the sidelines the following week. Sorry for the rant. Just felt it necessary to get my point of view out there.

[KickinAsphalt]

I think we also need to add a clause to the Caution rule.
(example)
Any Driver that causes a wreck during the restart lap will be on a 1 and park next race, and on a DNQ.

I know this seems harsh, but we don't need cautions right after the green flies.

Edit: we may need to add a rule that states.
If you are heading to the back and cause a wreck. You are on a 1 and Park and DNQ.

(ex. Drift up, move in any way that makes a wreck happen, ie. You move up to merge in but realize there's no room, and the guy next to you ends up causing a wreck, or something like the 2 above)

I hold no grudges, anger, or any disposition, whatsoever during the last race. But what happened earlier in the race is ridiculous.

[KickinAsphalt]

I tend to agree with both of you on both points made.

As far as tonight race ending how it did, looking at the replay it just doesn't make any sence why it happen Frank did everything he could he was already on the yellow line but got pushed below the apron in the turn, sorry this never should have happened.

I don't know if it was because there was only one to go or what, that is another thing that bothered me about it. I mean I don't know the circumstances but Sean was in the pits finished 11 laps down not ended up running at least one extra caution lap maybe two because of it when we didn't need to.

rant over...

[KickinAsphalt]

That is why we have a season ending drivers meeting!!!

[KickinAsphalt]

Very much appreciate the feedback. And I appreciate Steeve clarifying this isn't a bash session, but a chance to try to make things better with suggestions.

I was so disgusted after the race last night I had to step away for awhile or I would have said things I would have later regretted. I didn't even bother to check the replay yet as I don't want to be in a bad mood on a Friday.

I cannot comprehend how we can run 36 cars in a given week and have 1 wreck, and then the following week, have a few less cars, have a GREAT first half of the race, and then totally ruin the second half. People don't forget how to drive a car in a week. We all realize there is a greater chance for cautions with bigger fields, but it doesn't mean that it MUST happen that way each week. I am tired of hearing people say "cautions breed cautions" and "wrecks at the end are to be a part of superspeedway racing." I think both of those phrases are total cop-outs for people to just go psycho and justify the wreckfests that will happen as a result of that mind-set.

It is a lack of respect, not paying attention, and being overly aggressive. THAT'S ALL IT IS. There is no easier track in the world to drive than Talladega. It is huge, has room to go 4-wide in the turns, and has lots of banking. I try not to complain about hard racing because I LOVE 95% of the racing that takes place each week, but each week, there are a couple of drivers that overstep the boundary between hard racing and being a reckless maniac. And yes, people need to pay attention to where they should be on restarts, and make sure they are on the gas when that green comes out. If you want to be at the back, I have no problem with someone dropping back and then clearing a black flag. It beats the alternative that occurred. I'm not going to single out any people because it is someone different each week, and the admins are not innocent either. We just have to do better as a group.

Regarding the rule suggestions, we strongly considered harsher rules for incidents, and personally, I think the penalty for an incident should be the same, regardless of whether it is at the beginning of the race, the end, on a restart, or on the last lap. I got wrecked on lap 26 and while the damage was minor, it was enough to keep me from making a run to the front. I spent the race of my race trying to make it to the front but was unable to do so, and as a result, got collected in 2 more wrecks later in the race. If you cause a wreck and damage other cars, they aren't going to be more or less angry or understanding because of the lap it occurred on. The frustration is the same and the drivers who get torn up are still going to have a bad result in the race.

The only reason we did not go for a harsher penalty is because I question how much of a difference it would make. I believe people would continue to drive over their heads and instead of being on a 1-and-park the following week, they would be lobbying the Replay Committee for them to overturn a call in the hopes of not having to sit out a race. Maybe I am wrong, but that is my suspicion. Keep in mind this rule was added AFTER this season started. Normally we don't make changes mid-season and let the drivers decide. We only added this rule in the middle of the season because the second halves of the races were totally out of control and we did not want to have people give up on this series.

It's the 3-wide, 1-caution races like last week that make people want to run on Thursdays, and it's races like last night that will make people go race/do something else on Thursdays.

I appreciate the drivers who are offering constructive criticism and suggestions. If the drivers as a whole come up with any ideas that the majority agrees with, we will strongly consider it as I am quite frankly, tired of spending my Friday nights sifting thru wreck after wreck and re-shuffling the finishing order. Some of these incident reports take longer than the races themselves.

It is in the hands of the drivers as to what kind of series they want this to be. Your actions on the track will determine if this will be a fun, competitive series with packed fields, or if we want to watch talented, clean drivers to do something else because they are tired of putting themselves in a good position only to have unnecessary cautions ruin their nights week-in week-out.

[KickinAsphalt]

Good points all, and yes, driver input and more importantly driver action, is what will ultimately clean up some of these races. Many variations of rules and penalties can be discussed and certainly have been many times over, but until the overall combined atmosphere of driver desperation is changed by the drivers themselves, not much will change. Everyone needs to take it upon themselves to not want to have races like last night and make a conscious effort to consider that when the desperation urge comes. I know we CAN do this and have done it many many times. Like Josh stated, it's almost always different drivers each week, so that says something in itself. If it was just the same couple drivers, that would be an easier fix.

The racing was absolutely great last night for the first large segment of the race, and many drivers were running great races. Like Steeve and Josh touched on, people want to see their night end by the race they spent their night running, good or bad, not by who did or didn't get wiped out by no action of their own when the chaos ensued.

We have an entire field of GREAT drivers and you use that greatness to put on absolutely incredible displays of great three wide driving, lap after lap, and that is the true amazement and spectacle of Tally Challenge that gets everyone together each week. We are very fortunate to be able to get together each week and do this, and despite the hiccups we look forward to getting together and doing this the next time, because we know how awesome it can be. All together as a group we can get this done. It's certainly not a lack of talent.

Quick side note: Brian to answer your concern, there are many many factors that contribute to the number of caution laps run. After my night was ended, getting wiped out in the first mess (while leading most laps ) and receiving a 4 minute tow, we elected to leave my car in the pits, as we were experiencing an abnormally high number of black flags needing to be cleared, and the next yellow coming out immediately in turn one of the restart, so that I could use my hot keys to quickly clear the flags before drivers risked a DQ. When there is a yellow with 5 laps to go, there is always another restart, often with one to go, depending upon many possible factors (red names, lap cars, where the yellow happened, etc..). All of those could have made a difference as to why the green would come with one or two to go, but it was coming for certain. With the quick times between green and the next yellows, it was still difficult to get them all cleared even without having to long type each one. However we will look at that and take it into consideration should a similar situation happen. Sadly, nobody expected so many cautions in rapid succession in those closing 11 laps.

"Quick" note two: When a driver receives a black flag on a double file restart and believe it should be cleared, please announce it clearly on TS and more importantly, post it in text so that the admins will see it. With the many flags that came in a couple restarts last night, it was almost inevitable that several drivers would call it on TS at the same time and step on each other, which happened on the final restart right before the final yellow. Call it out, but post it in chat as well, and then if you don't see it cleared within a half lap or so, call it out again and listen for the admins asking if there are any still needing to be cleared. We are aware of the couple that didn't get cleared in the final green/quick yellow and those will be fixed. As always, we will look and verify all black flags that are requested to be cleared.

Sorry for the long note. Again, great drivers, great racing, fixable issue.

[KickinAsphalt]

Josh I'm with you 1000% It was the reason I disconnected without saying anything and that was before I saw the replay of that last wreck in turn one on the restart. I'm like you I can't understand how we could do one caution last week with 36 cars and this week was just poop.

Prime I hope you know I meant no disrespect in anyway at all, as I stated I didn't know the circumstances but I pretty well figured you were pitching in and helping out.

I know you guys put a lot of work into the races here and it's not an easy job by any means. That being said I think you guys do an excellent job.

I also respect the fact that we can voice our opinions in here respectfully to try and always improve on our events here.

This is why I love this place!

Fyi.... Josh why is it not 96% of the racing you love here, dang Mr. Negative jk lmao

[KickinAsphalt]

Absolutely none at all taken Brian . We just wanted to let you know the reasons behind that. No worries at all sir. Josh puts a ton into this and does a truly great job. We all feel his pain when a race like last night's has to be sifted through.